Scope of setting

[Carnifex]

Reposted from the old forum. I'd still like to know if this is a bad idea and, if so, why...

The scope of the setting seems overwhelming. I think it could turn out to be a very interesting setting but wouldn't it be better to limit the setting to the north or south pole. This way every DM could easily incorporate the setting in his or her own world (every DM could use the detailed north pole).

This is also a quite common way to make a new setting (Mystica etc).

It could still be a quite large continent. All the cool stuff could still be there... and this heat source deep below the surface could still be there playing an important part of the setting.

[Carnifex]

bump 

[Ascendant]

I think an ice planet, instead of just a continent, allows for a huge and endless variety of ideas to be expressed on the one world. Scope is a meaningless concept to an adopted setting. This is the official Phoenix Lore setting to last for years and could even spark a franchise. Having a whole world being icebound provides limitless possibilities. Where you see an "overwhelming" setting, I see opportunity. You're essentially saying to limit the entire setting in order to keep from limiting a group's pre-existing setting. But with the Icebound world, people could easily be sent to Icebound via a dimensional portal. There is no such limit to be concerned with. With proper GM planning, an existing party could easily be transported to Icebound.

[Carnifex]

I think an ice planet, instead of just a continent, allows for a huge and endless variety of ideas to be expressed on the one world.

This is true even on a continent. On a continent you can have many kingdoms and lots of variation on flora and fauna. For comparison Antarctica cover about 5,400,000 sq miles and USA cover about 3,800,000 sq miles. You can have icy forests, massive mountain ranges, frozen rivers, open sea, islands etc etc.

This is the official Phoenix Lore setting to last for years and could even spark a franchise. Having a whole world being icebound provides limitless possibilities.

I see just as many possibilities on a massive continent. On a continent we could easily fit like 20 kingdoms, frost giant empires, endless wastes, enormous underground settlements and cities, huge mountain ranges, large non-human kingdoms. I can promise you Phoenix Lore will have enough work many years ahead.

I see only advantages with a "polar" setting (being easily incorporated into a current setting is one huge advantage). A whole world of ice will offer less possibilities IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica

[Phoenix]

This is true even on a continent. On a continent you can have many kingdoms and lots of variation on flora and fauna. For comparison Antarctica cover about 5,400,000 sq miles and USA cover about 3,800,000 sq miles. You can have icy forests, massive mountain ranges, frozen rivers, open sea, islands etc etc.

Yes a continent can cover a lot, but still doesn't cover as much as a whole world.  A world allows one to place contients closer or further from the equator varying them more then would normaly be found on a single contient.

I see just as many possibilities on a massive continent. On a continent we could easily fit like 20 kingdoms, frost giant empires, endless wastes, enormous underground settlements and cities, huge mountain ranges, large non-human kingdoms. I can promise you Phoenix Lore will have enough work many years ahead.

Those 20 kingdoms though mean less larger ones.  With a whole world to play in you could have an empire stretching the whole contient and smaller ones elsewhere, even warring empires across continents.

I see only advantages with a "polar" setting (being easily incorporated into a current setting is one huge advantage). A whole world of ice will offer less possibilities IMO.

Plenty of ways to move between worlds and offering more possibilities for adventure due to requiring different means of transport to get there.  Rather then simply a sea voyage to get there you have to find the long lost portal of Anuk rumored to be deep in the Silphian jungle.  Or the adventurers find an old ship buried in the desert, wonder how it got there do some research and learn it's actually a Spelljamming ship.

[Carnifex]

Yes a continent can cover a lot, but still doesn't cover as much as a whole world.  A world allows one to place contients closer or further from the equator varying them more then would normaly be found on a single contient.

A continent could be varied the same way. A more normal climate further away from the pole etc. Ice free harbours far away from the pole, taiga and maybe some temperate pine forests as well?

Those 20 kingdoms though mean less larger ones.  With a whole world to play in you could have an empire stretching the whole contient and smaller ones elsewhere, even warring empires across continents.

20 kingdoms was only an example. I'm certain the space would be sufficient for large enough empires. Please give me examples when a huge continent (or some smaller) would not be enough. Also if the DM wants for some strange reason wants super huge empires he could use his "normal" world empires.

Plenty of ways to move between worlds and offering more possibilities for adventure due to requiring different means of transport to get there.  Rather then simply a sea voyage to get there you have to find the long lost portal of Anuk rumored to be deep in the Silphian jungle.  Or the adventurers find an old ship buried in the desert, wonder how it got there do some research and learn it's actually a Spelljamming ship.

This is of course very possible with a polar world as well. The means of transport to the "new" world is of course up the the dm. Sea voyage, portal, strange ship, teleport, magic circle, magic helm.... whatever.

Also, imo, a "real" expedition to the frozen continent would be cooler than just a portal.

[Phoenix]

A continent could be varied the same way. A more normal climate further away from the pole etc. Ice free harbours far away from the pole, taiga and maybe some temperate pine forests as well?

A continent can be but unless it's gargantuan it's not going to reach from pole to pole, and if it was that size harder to fit into an existing world.  So there's more variance possible from a world then just a single continent.

20 kingdoms was only an example. I'm certain the space would be sufficient for large enough empires. Please give me examples when a huge continent (or some smaller) would not be enough. Also if the DM wants for some strange reason wants super huge empires he could use his "normal" world empires.

Example would be DM specific, all depends on what one is looking for within the world.  But one I already mentioned was you could have a continent spanning empire trying to extend it's reach to other continents.  There could be nowhere left for this empire to expand so it has to reach out to other continents.  Putting this within the DM's existing world might not work depending on his plans for those areas.

This is of course very possible with a polar world as well. The means of transport to the "new" world is of course up the the dm. Sea voyage, portal, strange ship, teleport, magic circle, magic helm.... whatever.

Also, imo, a "real" expedition to the frozen continent would be cooler than just a portal.

Always is possible within a complete world as well rather then just using a continent.  The "real" expidition could still be just that but more possibilities first they would have to find a way to the world then the "real" part begins once they have reached the world they then may have to travel to reach the part of it they are interested in.

[Ascendant]

My thought is that I'm not seeing any reason here not to make Icebound its own world. Besides, there's no reason a GM can't use Icebound elements in their own campaign. They don't have to be bound to the idea of Icebound as a whole world if they don't want to. That's no reason for Icebound not to be established as a world in its setting.

[Carnifex]

My thought is that I'm not seeing any reason here not to make Icebound its own world. Besides, there's no reason a GM can't use Icebound elements in their own campaign. They don't have to be bound to the idea of Icebound as a whole world if they don't want to. That's no reason for Icebound not to be established as a world in its setting.

I know you two are think that it should be a world of its own but I have not heard any good reasons for that.

[Phoenix]

I know you two are think that it should be a world of its own but I have not heard any good reasons for that.

And I have yet to hear a good reason why it shouldn't be.

[Vance]

I know you two are think that it should be a world of its own but I have not heard any good reasons for that.

So it can be available as its own product.

So it can be focused on its own feel without worrying about being 'generic' or feeling like another setting.

[Ascendant]

My thought is that I'm not seeing any reason here not to make Icebound its own world. Besides, there's no reason a GM can't use Icebound elements in their own campaign. They don't have to be bound to the idea of Icebound as a whole world if they don't want to. That's no reason for Icebound not to be established as a world in its setting.

I know you two are think that it should be a world of its own but I have not heard any good reasons for that.

Because it already is. First come, first serve.

[Ascendant]

Allow me to sum up the reasons for keeping it as a world as stated and adding a few more myself:

1. It already is and was from the beginning. Weight of establishment. First come, first serve.
2. Changing an established setting causes conflict of vision within the setting. I state that from experience.
3. So it can be focused on its own feel without worrying about being 'generic' or feeling like another setting.
4. There's no reason a GM can't use Icebound elements in their own campaign. They don't have to be bound to the idea of Icebound as a whole world if they don't want to.
5. Icebound is an independent setting. There is no existing setting that we will be adding it to, because we are not interested in infringement. So even if we made it as just the north and south poles, we would still be creating a whole new world for the Icebound setting.
6. Because you're outnumbered 3-1. No one seems to be coming to your rescue on this issue.

[DarkSkrypter]

I just hope that arguments don't rise up over this issue too often.  Personally I have always thought of it as a world of its own.

Creating a world, and all its continents at once can be a daunting task.  Narrow it down to a single continent at a time.

[Carnifex]

Allow me to sum up the reasons for keeping it as a world as stated and adding a few more myself:

1. It already is and was from the beginning. Weight of establishment. First come, first serve.
2. Changing an established setting causes conflict of vision within the setting. I state that from experience.
3. So it can be focused on its own feel without worrying about being 'generic' or feeling like another setting.
4. There's no reason a GM can't use Icebound elements in their own campaign. They don't have to be bound to the idea of Icebound as a whole world if they don't want to.
5. Icebound is an independent setting. There is no existing setting that we will be adding it to, because we are not interested in infringement. So even if we made it as just the north and south poles, we would still be creating a whole new world for the Icebound setting.
6. Because you're outnumbered 3-1. No one seems to be coming to your rescue on this issue.

Just to say "First come, first serve" or "Nah we don't wanna change" is a little bit childish. Ever heard of the expression "Kill your darlings"?

I wrote a lot of reasons why we should go for "polar" world but I accidentely deleted it but rewrote a small part:

You said "There's no reason a GM can't use Icebound elements in their own campaign". Well if we start with one continent or pole (which is a great way to start anyway) we can keep it open until later if it's a whole world of ice or just a continent/pole. Maximum flexibility for the DM and more DMs will use it.