Special Icebound Race

[Phoenix]

You forgot to mention skill points[should be something like [2+Int]*6 due to 3 racial HD), and is it a monstrous humanoid or just humanoid?  Other than that it looks ok to me.  Though wouldn't call it a player race.

Also forgot type (which will also help determie HD and skill points), CR, Enviroment, Base Attack, ect...  With 3 racial HD plus an LA probably wont be used much by players but then not every race would be.

[Giomanach]

Good point, I don't recall "regular" races being able to increase HD. I guess I'll fill in the missing info and slip that over into the monster topics.

Hmm... Remove the HD, lower ability adjustments, leave just Intimidate and Survival as racial skills, lower the natural AC, remove all but the Ferocity trait, remove the horn on the nose and we might still be able to create a primitive race.

[Ascendant]

They need a description. What do they look like? What are their social customs? What is their language like? What sets them apart?

[Phoenix_ArchMage]

Good point, I don't recall "regular" races being able to increase HD. I guess I'll fill in the missing info and slip that over into the monster topics.

Hmm... Remove the HD, lower ability adjustments, leave just Intimidate and Survival as racial skills, lower the natural AC, remove all but the Ferocity trait, remove the horn on the nose and we might still be able to create a primitive race.

Ok so I can agree with everything but no horn on the nose.  Keep it, makes it unique and interesting.

[Giomanach]

Ascendant, I'm basically throwing out ideas that anyone can tag onto. I'm good at brainstorming and getting things rolling (somewhat) yet just as willing to hear other ideas that could expand on what I start.

Phoenix_ArchMage, I think the "rhinoman" that I originally started with should remain at least near par with a minotaur and further weakening that idea to make it equal to the standard core races takes away from the concept. Maybe work with a baboon or badger in the racial concept. I'm avoiding the boar because the orc is still seen as a "pig" race by some and the wolverine I don't want people thinking X-Men. But again as I said, I'm just trying to be a catalyst here. Let's hear other ideas or simply expanding ideas on what is already posted.

[Phoenix_ArchMage]

Ascendant, I'm basically throwing out ideas that anyone can tag onto. I'm good at brainstorming and getting things rolling (somewhat) yet just as willing to hear other ideas that could expand on what I start.

Phoenix_ArchMage, I think the "rhinoman" that I originally started with should remain at least near par with a minotaur and further weakening that idea to make it equal to the standard core races takes away from the concept. Maybe work with a baboon or badger in the racial concept. I'm avoiding the boar because the orc is still seen as a "pig" race by some and the wolverine I don't want people thinking X-Men. But again as I said, I'm just trying to be a catalyst here. Let's hear other ideas or simply expanding ideas on what is already posted.

Yeah the minotaur effect is initially what I was thinking in concept too.  I think the issue with diluting a monster (animal in this case) into a playable core race is an unfounded reasoning that nearly ruins the fun of playing it in the first place.  Why not keep most of the animal intact and raise the level adjustment a bit?

Anyhow.  I feel core races are underdone mostly.  The original "fairy tale" elf was not tall and was closer to an imp in appearance, but see what just a few decades has transformed it.  The same with the ogre and troll, whose appearances and abilities have changed from the original intention of the stories they root from.
Many of these characteristics the core races in DND muster are in fact personality traits given life as a playable race.  So figuring a person as a "rhino" in which the bully characteristic implies, is a perfect example of personification that core races exemplify.  Taking away from the personification actually reduces the effectiveness and intention.

Ok I will breathe now...lol

[Ascendant]

The elves in LOTR were tall because that's how JRR Tolken wrote them to be. He based them off of the Norse mythology of the human-sized "àlfar" from which the mythology of elves originated. Michael Moorcock's Melnebonéans are tall, but are not stated to be elves, even though the story of Melneboné also represents the same region and tale of the "àlfar". But the usual trend, such as with D&D, is to make them smaller than human sized, based on the later Scandenavian myths. Myths change.

For more history on elves, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf .

[Giomanach]

OK... I've started the ball rolling, build on it. I hear voices that say it's not a fitting PC race and I hear that it shouldn't be weakened. I leave it to you to decide what happens. As to a description, my only input on that is a Woolly Rhino humanoid.

[Aeolius]

The elves in LOTR were tall because that's how JRR Tolken wrote them to be.

And then there are Pini elves (Elfquest), which is how I envision D&D elves.

[DarkSkrypter]

When I said that it doesn't seem to fit as a player race, I didn't mean to say that it was bad, just that it was missing a lot of info.  I would definitely suggest Monstrous Humanoid HD for the Rhinomen, Which I'm going to take a crack at giving a name.  Rhioma perhaps?

As far as making a more playable, beastial race, I would think that Gore or a natural attack, claws perhaps or a slam would be acceptable, since this is a setting within which the world is undergoing an iceage, I would stay away from racial HD, but give natural attacks free.  Bonuses to Survival, Climb, Jump and Balance would probably be best for races adapted more to the worlds current circumstances, and of course the standard +2 for Listen and Spot for some races.  An ability like a Polarbear's Second eyelid(National Geographic) to prevent snowblindness.  Or the Penguins layer of natural underfat insulation.  I would call acceptable for playable races adapted to the world's cold environment.

I don't know about others, but I tend to look at the environment that the race will be primarily found as part of the process for making that race.  It allows me to factor in some of the additional information that would otherwise not be provided with the stats.

Onto the elf problem, yes it's an elf problem, I would actually take them away from the standard visiojn of what an elf is seen as.  Personally I think they should average the same height as humans, with rare pigmy elves being born.

Pigmy Elves(Bialo)  Due to the rarity of this race within the elven births it is not often that one of these is seen or known until their twenty fifth year of life, and are often viewed as a bad omen by the (un)fortunate parents of a child of this kind.  It is not uncommon to find one slain before their fourtieth birthday, those who make it past their fourtieth birthday are sent to live in Riali - Birthplace of the elven peoples within the icebound setting.  (Names can be changed to suit the setting as needed.  This is just one idea I had for the elven people of icebound.)

[Phoenix_ArchMage]

Yes you are correct I just think that "wooly Rhino men" can also have regional variants, as do all rhinos-like creatures.  And for the record "Cerato" is actually in the scientific name so I figured it appropriate and easy to say as Rhinoman -men is a bit awkward.

[Giomanach]

OK we have 3 possible names; Ceratoman, Muzorn and Rhioma (I was trying to stay away from -man as I find that somewhat unimaginative in general (NOT a personal attack there) and I only posted "rhinoman" so that it became common knowledge of the type of race we are discussing.) The use of the scientific name could well fit in, DarkSkrypter's version of simply ommiting "n"'s has merit as well. I went for an alternate wording of the original meaning, nose (muzzle) horn.

I have a Gore attack mentioned for the horn (I just stated Gore: 1d6, I should have expanded on that) as doing 1d6 damage (might want to up it to 1d8) as well as the special racial attack that the minotaur has, Powerful Charge. I would see this type of primitive race as hard-headed, dense and stubborn so I believe the boars Ferocity fits well and a rhino is normally steadfast. Personally I don't see a rhino varient having a claw or even bite attack.

Survival, Jump and Balance I agree with but again I don't see rhino's climbing therefore I suggested Intimidate instead of Climb. Also rhinos have poor sight and some drawback to the race is needed I believe, therefore I suggested the -4 Spot penalty. The +2, or even equalize with a +4, Listen I could see.

The main concept is starting from the Woolly Rhino (Coelodonta antiquitatis) so I'll put in what I envisioned originally (seems we're still floundering so I'll expand on the description):

A large, burly human figure (still only medium-sized though) with a long, thick fur coat covering nearly all of the body (same protection ability as the penguins underfat layer) with a head of a rhinoceros (I only see one horn, not two) and the stump-like feet yet "2 finger and thumb" hands. Maybe even give them the white coat color instead of brown.
As to "culture", I'd see them as clanish. Small numbered family groups upto 15 members. (Would also help with creating subspecies, another region clan adapts to it's enviroment differently).

[Ascendant]

While I'm okay with the musclebound type for the setting, I am not so keen on the "rhinoman" concept.

Also, I find the original "keras" over "cerot" ("cerat" as shown here) to be more attractive for a name.

EDIT: I just tried a sketch of the "rhinoman", and I'm sorry, but I don't see anyone wanting to play such a character race. I feel the idea of the race would best be served if we focus on making it more than just "playable". Maybe we could start with a background in how the race relates to the setting, and then think up an interesting-looking race that fits the background.

[Giomanach]

Works for me Ascendant. I just thought I'd get this thread going. Don't ask me why but I had the image of the villian lackey from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon in my mind.

I think working a background and description first would be a very good start that way all points can be considered first without the "Doesn't fit the image I had" that I'll confess I myself did as well. I'd personally say let's first agree on the culture, primitive or advanced? Does the race have a means to heat this ice enclosed planet (at least in their immediate surroundings)? Family values, do they create offspring when and whereever they can or are they monogamous? Enviroment, mountains, frozen plains or ice forests? Supertitious or magically inclined, or even both? Scavengers that just have enough to eat or well feed hunters/gathers or farmers?

Just a few suggested questions that we'll want to answer.

[Ascendant]

Those are some good considerations. I think filling out those points will make for a good start.

To be a mainstay race, I'm thinking they would need to be on par, intellectually, to the other main races. They are native to the cold setting, so will likely have a unique way of surviving in the environment. Most animals in a frozen environment create burrows. Perhaps, being on the high end of the intellectual scale, they would specialize in the expression of arts in a massive community hovel, or else have individual hovels where they undertake more homely pursuits. If doing the individual hovels, maybe their hovels are multi-tiered, with a room here, another down over there, and the bottom room goes further back, etc., with gnarl wood ladders staggered or randomly placed between the levels. So if burrows sounds good, are their burrows large communal structures or small hovels? Is there another way they have of making their homes different than burrows?